Subj: Two Radio Control Box Date: Fri, Jun 2, 1995 10:26 AM EDT From: jayk@hpfcla.fc.hp.com X-From: jayk@bits.fc.hp.com (Jay Kesterson) Reply-to: jayk@hpfcla.fc.hp.com To: KA9FOX@aol.com THE ORIGINAL QUESTION: I plan to finally build a control box for using two radios single op. Was thinking of something very simple like: 1. A three position switch for receive audio that would give (A) run rig in both ears (B) one rig in each ear (C) second rig in both ears 2. A two position switch for xmit to switch the mic/footswitch/keyer plus maybe a momentary pushbutton switch that switches the mic/etc to the second rig. ?. On the second rig are you using a auto tune amp, manual tune amp or no amp at all??? Is this OK or have I overlooked something? What are you using and why? I saved Tree's post from sometime back and thats about the only input I have so far. Please reply direct to me and I will post a summary. 73, Jay K0GU jayk@fc.hp.com ****************************************************************************** THE REPLIES: ****************************************************************************** (The following is an article scheduled for publication in the Texas DX Society monthly newsletter, The Bullsheet. Please credit TDXS and the author if you distribute or republish it. Thanks, Joe, W5ASP) Two-Radio Headphone Switch de Joe, W5ASP The ability to listen to either one or both of two radios is easy to implement. It requires only a switch (or switches), an assortment of connectors, shielded audio cable and an enclosure. A simple way to do this is to visit the local Radio Shack store with the following shopping list. Parts List: 1 Stereo Audio Source Selector #42-2110 $ 14.95 1 Stereo Y-Adapter (2 RCA plug #42-2471 $ 3.79 phono to one 1/4" stereo jack) 1 Audio Cable Set (Four 3 ft cables #42-2309 $ 5.79 w/ RCA plugs @ end; color coded) 2 RCA/RCA Y-Adapter (2 RCA plugs to #42-2435 $ 5.58 single RCA jack) 2 Stereo Y-Adapter (2 RCA jacks to #42-2477 $ 5.18 single 1/4" stereo plug) TOTAL $ 35.25 (Note: Though some may think this a bit expensive, consider that there are over 30 connectors and 14 lengths of audio cable plus a "box" to prepare.) Assembly Instructions Definitions Stereo (1/4" plug & Jack) Circuit 1 - Tip Circuit 2 - Ring Common - Shell Radios Right - Radio 1 - Mult Left - Radio 2 - Run Headphone (Stereo) Right Speaker Left Speaker Selector (2 RCA jacks @; Left and Right) OUT AUX 1 - Radio 2 (Left) AUX 2 - Both Radios (1 @ headset speaker) AUX 3 - Radio 1 (Right) Procedure 1. Attach the Stereo (Jack) Y-Adapter to OUT. (The RCA plugs can be swapped later to select L/R speaker) 2. Attach RCA/RCA Y-Adapter plugs to AUX 1 and AUX 3. 3. Attach Stereo (Plug) to Headphone Input of each Radio. (Mark the RCA jacks as to which goes to the Tip and which the Ring.) 4. Connect Yellow RCA (Dual Plug) cable from AUX 1 to Left Radio (preferably the Tip RCA jack). 5. Connect Green RCA (Dual Plug) cable from AUX 3 to Right Radio (the Tip RCA jack). 6. Connect Black RCA (Dual Plug) cable to AUX 2 Left jack. Connect the other end to the remaining RCA jack on the Left Radio, i.e. the Ring jack. (Same adapter as the Yellow cable). 7. Connect Red RCA (Dual Plug) cable to AUX 2 Right jack. Connect the other end to the remaining RCA jack on the Right Radio, i.e. the Ring jack. (Same adapter as the Green cable). Operation 1. AUX 1 switches Radio 2 (Left) to the Stereo Headset, both speakers. 2. AUX 3 switches Radio 1 (Right) to the Stereo Headset, both speakers. 3. AUX 2 switches Radio 2 (Left) to Left Stereo Headset speaker and Radio 1 (Right) to Right Stereo Headset speaker. I find that the Audio Selector Box is large enough that I don't have to chase it around the operating table as I did my "homebrew" dual-radio switch box. Plus I can rest my left hand on it as I CQ on Radio 2 and tune for mults on Radio 1. Comments: 1. Once the station layout is set, use tie-wraps to tidy up the audio cables. 2. If you already have plenty of audio jumper cables, you obviously don't have to buy the package of "color coded" cable. However they make tracing connection a lot easier. Four (4) more grey cables running around the operating table can really add to the confusion! 3. Yes, I know a multi-pole toggle switch will also do the job. But I like the "feel" of the push buttons, as I can sense by feel which one I want without looking at the selector box. Plus they are easier to manage with my large, clumsy hand. ****************************************************************************** from AA6MC My new control box uses an ON-ON-ON switch for headphone switching that gives the results you described. I also wired a 5000 ohm pot (with an "off" switch) across the headphones to add some mix which I've found useful sometimes. I switch footswitch, keyer, and both the hot and ground microphone leads. I had a 4PDT switch anyway. I found it necessary to separate microphone ground from PTT ground throughout the system to avoid hum. I'm using a Belden cable that has two separately shielded twisted pairs within one cable jacket. I have only one amplifier. Rig A is the one with the amplifier, rig B is the "barefoot" rig. I use a manual crossover coax switch (from Surplus Sales in Nebraska) to switch both rigs to both antenna sets. Antenna set A is 80/30/20 and 10 meters, antenna set B is 40 and 15 meters. Both antenna sets have a coax switching box (Ameritron) at the top of the tower. I have only the one tower, and I have two coax runs to the top. I have two Top-Ten control boxes that are going to be integrated to switch antennas with the rig, and I have a Dunestar filter that also needs to be switched with the rig. When I get a second amp I won't have to switch antennas, and things will get simpler. But for the short term antenna selection is a manual operation. I've got a lot to learn about how to use two rigs. It isn't as easy as I thought it would be when I started. I got a lot of these ideas from W6QHS. ****************************************************************************** from N6TV N6BT designed this one, and I love it. Two small toggle switches, mounted at right angles on the right side of an inclined box. Used with left hand. Bottom switch (left/right): Switches footswitch, keyer, mic, headphones between left rig and right rig. Top switch (up/down): UP = listen both (left in left ear, right in right). DOWN = normal (both ears follow the other switch). You have to use it to appreciate it. ****************************************************************************** From KR0Y Sounds about right to me. 2nd amp as autotune nice but not necessary. ****************************************************************************** from K1DG My box is basically what you describe (and Wiz described again in the NCJ article about his oepration from here in March). If you do the "left radio in left ear, right radio in right ear" trick, you'll find that you like it a lot more by putting a resistor across the switch so you actually get both radios in both ears, but a louder left radio in the left ear and louder right radio in the right ear. This suggestion came from non-tech social-worker KC1F, by the way, and has saved my sanity. I use a second amp for the second rig. If you switch the mic line, make sure you switch both the hot and ground leads, or you will end up with hum, RF feedback or worse. ****************************************************************************** from KJ4VH Jay, I built a box that I think does exactly what you're talking abt. I started with the schematic of K8CC's box that was in NCJ a few years ago (maybe '89 or '90). Anyway, I took Dave's design and made some improvements to it (at least I consider them improvements). For example, I added a Stereo/Mono switch that allows you to put a radio in each ear or just one radio in both ears. There's a separate A/B switch which determines which radio you transmit on (and which one is in your ear when you're not xmtng), plus the "secret weapon" button that switches you to rcv on the radio you're not xmting on. P.S.: I also replaced the multi-pole switch in Dave's design with relays. It might not be as reliable in the long term, but it's certainly much easier to flip the little toggle switch than to crank a hefty wafer switch thousands of times in one weekend! ****************************************************************************** from K7GM Just a few comments from one who has started to mess with the two radio setup. Bear in mind that I am running no amp on either radio, so the amp switching stuff is not an issue. Someday I may run 220 to the computer room/hamshack, but even then I will probably not have an amp on the second radio. Remember, the second radio is for those extra Qs, not to run em. An amp isn't a necessity. My headphone switching box is a six position switch (only three used) with dual contacts for each position. I use stereo earphones and have the box set up so the left position puts both ears on the left radio (the mult radio); the center position puts the left radio in the left ear and the right radio (run radio...if you can call a barefoot setup a run radio) in the right ear; and the right position puts the right radio in both ears. It is best to set it up such - easy visual and aural identification of what is what. I have another box which switches the keyer and computer key line from one radio to another. It is a simple toggle switch set on its side so that when it points left it goes to the left radio and when right goes to the right one. The key switching is complicated because my main radio is a TS940 and the second one is a TS830. One is positive keying and the other is negative. I also have a couple of antenna switching boxes. One is a standard Ameritron box which switches between 5 antennas. The other is homebrew which will take any antenna and put it to the secondary rig or to the Ameritron box (which then goes to the primary rig). This setup allows me to have any antenna on either rig (so the secondary rig is not limited to some super crummy antenna - compared to the semi crummy antenna on the main rig). The only problem I have is the interference between rigs. I don't have any stubs or such (since either rig can be on any antenna and on any band the switching could be a nightmare). In addition, the homebrew box doesn't have any special shielding and the relays are something from my junkbox. Do you have any ideas? Oh yeah. I always use QSK when using the 940. Greatest thing since sliced bread. ****************************************************************************** from AB6FO I wrote an article for NCJ on my switch which appeared in the Nov/Dec '93 issue....... If you use CT, you may want to wait on the design of the two radio switch, as Ken is putting two radio control into version 9.?. If you can use two parallel ports, one for each radio, for sending CW, then you don't need to switch the keying line. Same for the RS-232 control. I am on the list to beta test the version, and I figure I will need to re-engineer the switch to accommodate the program. Using two radios sure is fun! ****************************************************************************** from W6QHS I use (2) x TS-950/Alpha 87 with all antennas automatically switched by control lines that 950 uses for antenna tuner bandswitching...I can be on any band in just a second or so, and it has been fun to use over the past few years. The switch box uses a special 3-position toggle switch for the receive audio...it is called ON-ON-ON, and in the middle position the stereo headphones are connected left ear to left rig and right ear to right rig... if you want a quasi-stereo effect, just put a 150 ohm resistor (or a 500 ohm pot) from one side of the headphones to the other (adjust for ratio you want, this puts attenuated opposite radio into each ear, sounds more natural to some, off-switch on pot demanded by others)...the color code for headphones is red for right on ring, white opposite...I also have anb automatic setup with relays that are run by the PTT lines of the finals, so I can concentrate on the S&P radio when the CQ radio is on autopilot, but I haven't mastered this setup yet. For transmit, I use a 4PDT switch to switch mic, mic return, PTT and key line...I use 2 x shielded twisted pair, with one pair for mic and return, one pair for PTT and return (footswitch), all shields tied together...big problem is hum from ground current of rigs, even with them all tied together with braid...I may need to break one of the shields and connect it through RF capacitor to keep RF ground, but not sure...it's good enough for contest... A/B box is a good place to have extra mic and headphone connector for others to listen...until I used the twin shielded twisted pair, I had RF problems that wouldn't go away with ferrite beads or anything. The nice part of this setup is that, unless you want the automatic listen- on-other-radio-when-xmit, it requires no relays or power...paddle switches would be ideal, but I haven't found any yet...because you can get cross- eyed getting the polarity and sense of the receive audio right, I would recommend building the thing with clip-leads first, then solder it up... no shielding required for the receive side lines, and I use a plastic box for the whole thing...you can get ready-made 2 x RCA to Stereo Plug cables to connect the box to the receiver phone jacks, and you need to make your own adapter cables for the mic. side...I use 5-pin DIN at the box and standard mic. connectors at the rig...if you want to use DVP the box is a good place to wire it in also....... That's all there is to it, and even if you don't get more Q's it feels like you are doing more, and it relieves the boredome of 70%-duty-cycle CQing. ****************************************************************************** from WB5VZL : 1. A three position switch for receive audio that would give (A) run rig : in both ears (B) one rig in each ear (C) second rig in both ears yep this is the way to go - I would use a toggle switch - so that you have feed back about what position it is in without having to look at it. : 2. A two position switch for xmit to switch the mic/footswitch/keyer plus : maybe a momentary pushbutton switch that switches the mic/etc to : the second rig. on the mic lines you need to use relays and switch the ground with the hot - if you try to use common grounds on the mic lines you will have HUM. float the mic ground and hot above the chassis ground on the box - and you will not have hum. : ?. On the second rig are you using a auto tune amp, manual tune amp or : no amp at all??? manual tune amp - and 87a would be nice - esp for chasing packet spots - but if you are just tuning another band it is not a big deal. i am going to write up my 3 radio switch box for the ncj - it didnt make the last deadline - but maybe next. ****************************************************************************** from AA5B > ?. On the second rig are you using a auto tune amp, manual tune amp or > no amp at all??? No amp at all! In fact, I usually don't have much of an antenna on the second radio either . . . just an R4 vertical or a multi-band dipole system. ****************************************************************************** from K5GN > Was thinking of something very simple like: > 1. A three position switch for receive audio that would give (A) run rig > in both ears (B) one rig in each ear (C) second rig in both ears You have the right idea, but I found it better to use two two-position switches, one for each ear, side by side on a small plastic box that sits next to the keyboard (right hand). The pair of switches functions better for me than a rotary switch. (Maybe a three position toggle switch could be better...hmm.) Easier to switch quickly for my slow hands and quite obvious at a glance which way they are set. For example, the left switch switches the left ear of the stereo headset; when it is pointing left, it chooses the rig on the left, right, the rig on the right. > 2. A two position switch for xmit to switch the mic/footswitch/keyer plus > maybe a momentary pushbutton switch that switches the mic/etc to > the second rig. A third switch above the rx audio pair selects the radio for the main keying line. This would be the switch for the tx audio and footswitch as well, but my box is for CW only (I don't push it enough on phone to worry about two radios). > ?. On the second rig are you using a auto tune amp, manual tune amp or > no amp at all??? Man, you use whatever you got. In SS it doesn't take much to get a CQer's attention with the second rig. The better the second rig works, the faster you get back to the first rig...especially in the DX contests. The thing I wish I had done better when I built my boxes is to have separated the ground or return lines from the shields. The shields should have been grounded at the radio, with twisted pairs for each of the circuits, switching both the hot and return lines. Since I used the shields as common return lines and they are all connected together, I have some hum problems/common mode problems...sometime I may redo it all, but not this fall, probably. ****************************************************************************** from N0AT I've used a control box for two radios during the SS for three years now. Every year I've made some modifications based on previous years operation. This is what I have found: > 1. A three position switch for receive audio that would give (A) run rig > in both ears (B) one rig in each ear (C) second rig in both ears. The option of one rig in each ear is seldom used. I do use it to break the monotony on Sunday afternoon. Normally the bands are too crowded, the QRM from both ears covers up both of the signals. One item that is a MUST, is a latching relay to automatically switch the receive audio between the radios. This relay (3PDT - DPDT for audio & SPDT for latching) is wired in series with the manual switch. The control is connected to the antenna relay (linear amp keying line), and enabled with a button near the S&P radio. You have to operate semi-break in. Now you will be able to automatically listen on the S&P radio whenever the run radio is transmitting. > 2. A two position switch for xmit to switch the mic/footswitch/keyer plus > maybe a momentary pushbutton switch that switches the mic/etc to > the second rig. You also need to consider how to interface the radios to your computer, at least until CT-9 is updated to handle this chore. I use an IC-765 for the run radio, and an IC-735 for the S&P radio. But I set up both radios as if they were 735's (with the switches in the 765), and set up the software to interface to a 735. My two position switch for xmit has an additional pole, which switches the computer interface line (from the back of each radio, before the level shifter). Now, whenever I hit the ENTER key on the computer, it takes the band info from the radio that I am currently transmitting on. > ?. On the second rig are you using a auto tune amp, manual tune amp or > no amp at all??? I use no amp at all. ****************************************************************************** 73, Jay K0GU jayk@fc.hp.com